Curse

Loot Junkie · Aug 21, 2008, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

I'd like to point out that I've discussed the 2n+1a/n a little with Damaged Spirit. I have an idea that could possibly work, with:

1 necro bringing SS and the usual
1 UA necro bringing well of the profane

SS would sacrifice himself at the tank spot in vale (die to enemies). UA raises WoP and resurrects SS. SS rezzes at full energy. Thus he can run his chain, then sac again. End result, no enchantments on foes. Assassin doesn't need to bring Chilblains and can run a more offensive build. He could possibly bring Blood Ritual for the UA (who will probably spec in Curses and Death). Ebon Escape if aggro while running in is an issue.

I would like to clarify something here. Back when we were clearing the vale with the A/N and the 2 necros we never had much of a problem getting the Wrathful Spirits quest done, as long as we were all in vent so we could coordinate our actions properly. The most dangerous part of doing this quest is the fact that these angry little buggers use [illusionary weaponry], which [shadow form] does not protect against. It is for this reason that these 3 players each have [chilblains] on their bar, otherwise the sin tank will die. The potential difficulty here is if these 3 players do not chain their chilblains properly, since the wrathful spirits are pretty quick to get their enchantments back up. Darkstone Construct and I would let Rifte Torin (our tank) call for the chilblains as they were needed. So as a team that was used to playing with each other we had it running pretty smooth.

I haven't been paying too much attention to the whole UWSC scene lately so I do not know if the masses of pugs are faring well with our method of clearing the vale or not. If they are having a low success rate with our build because of IW, perhaps Moloch's idea should be looked into for better enchantment control. The WotP necro would then have to be specced decently into death magic and not curses (with death at 16 [well of the profane] lasts 21 seconds) which would probably require a totally revamped bar with perhaps [ether nightmare] and [cry of pain].

Grieve Logdan · Aug 21, 2008, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Ok, just to help people move along here. The idea of using Well of the Profane has been attempted already and it does work, partially. The issue isn't its ability to strip the enchantments. (It does that perfectly well.) It comes when the Spirits recast IW because Well of the Profane only prevents targeted enchantments from being cast and well in the case of IW, it does not target. It sort of just gets casts. I have personally tested this out in vale with a friend of mine and we found that it does not work well unless you cast Well of the Profane constantly, which is an issue since Well of the Profane is 25 enegy and it is only 1 person casting the well. Feel free to continue you testing your ideas, but from what I have seen the idea is not the greatest although clever.

gigahertz205 · Aug 21, 2008, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Good vale sins shouldn't have problems doing wrathful spirits. I was playin as vale sin today when one our SS necro lagged out (the other nec was UA). Two copies of chill did fine. It was just slower killing. If you keep up shadow refuge as much as possible, you can cast chilblain upon recharge without any energy problems.

Moloch Vein · Aug 22, 2008, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grieve Logdan

It comes when the Spirits recast IW because Well of the Profane only prevents targeted enchantments from being cast and well in the case of IW, it does not target.

This kills the entire idea. Bad thing that I didn't think of this.

How about trying Order of Apostasy?

Main reason I'm discussing this is I think it would be good if the vale team didn't need to bring 3 copies of Chilblains and be limited to A/N for the assassin.

This way the A could go A/D with a scythe for AoE enchantment removal when needed and higher damage. One N could possibly give him strength of honor too.

The N UA is, unfortunately, in my opinion completely outclassed by Me/Mo or Mo/Me UAs.

Team-Speed-Dial Inc, · Aug 22, 2008, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Atm Team speed dial is reduced to a very. *small* number of members and core member's, due to this i (tears) will be answering . as for myself. and will not talk on behalf of any of hte former nor *prior* members of TeamSD,

I Do no longer use 2 N/Me's. nor do i apretiate the whole *we need UA trip* that has begun, UA makes the vale team lack dmg,

I use myself. 1 D/A, with enchant management and dmg, + the ability to tank the graspings . dryders. colds and aatxes encountered on the way, with Shadow Form, to support. i use either a N/Me or Me/E. i do not in any sercumstances use UA. in a team i host myself,

Using the before mentioned setup allow's the team to rely on a plains terra to clear plains.

i will update the guide. and the builds + tactics for the new split. (yes the split has changed in a way many wont understand)

best Regard's - Tears

gigahertz205 · Aug 23, 2008, 01:40 AM // 01:40

The only thing i can see with D/A is Aura slicer + shell shock + epidemic + mirror of disenchant (maybe) if your using a me/e. or Rending sweep + rending aura (maybe) + suffering + chilblains for n/me.

But i dont see how me/e could do as much damage as n/me. Echo + arcane echo + CoP?

XkristoferX · Aug 23, 2008, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Tears is correct. i've run a UA/SS combo and a SS/FoC combo and the SS/FoC combo is almost 10 minutes faster. the ONLY reason why people want a UA nerco is b/c of the unexpd terras that are running around out there and it's alot easier to just bring UA to make up for that fact. which is lame.

X

Moloch Vein · Aug 23, 2008, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Yes, it's obvious that the UA alternative is only a safety net for newbies.

However if we are to discuss options for the UA build I definitely feel that the Me/Mo version is a lot better than the other options.

FawkesStrongwind · Aug 23, 2008, 01:39 PM // 13:39

I will always prefer UA to FoC in a pug group unless I personally have run with the terras multiple times and know that they do not suck. Even with UA the vale team shouldn't take more than 20 minutes or so, which to me, is an acceptable time for pugs given the extra amount of safety it provides. I am sick of needing 2 cons and tons of res scrolls just because of all the noobs now sitting in ToA american D1... And I also agree that the Me/Mo (or Mo/Me) is far superior than the necromancer UA builds out there

XkristoferX · Aug 23, 2008, 02:36 PM // 14:36

yeah, a Me/mo UA Cryer is ALOT better then a N/Mo UA BUT pugs who are running UW only want a n/mo b/c that's apparently the only thing that can run that build, which is untrue of course. i, personially, get really angry is UW takes more than 1 con set. i wish my guild was able to run UW so that i would never to use a pug.

X

Cheeva B · Aug 24, 2008, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oblivious Moose

*claps* the invinci builds once again rule the speed uw clear.

wonder if anet will ever change back to the idea the game was based upon.

what was it called again... oh yea. TEAMWORK.

I dunno, that looks like a full team to me...?

Dante the Warlord · Aug 24, 2008, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by FawkesStrongwind

I will always prefer UA to FoC in a pug group unless I personally have run with the terras multiple times and know that they do not suck. Even with UA the vale team shouldn't take more than 20 minutes or so, which to me, is an acceptable time for pugs given the extra amount of safety it provides. I am sick of needing 2 cons and tons of res scrolls just because of all the noobs now sitting in ToA american D1... And I also agree that the Me/Mo (or Mo/Me) is far superior than the necromancer UA builds out there

Don't blame anyone for being a noob, you were one once. And what do you expect? How is ANYONE ever going to learn how to run UW HM without going in. And who has the money to get that many failed consets? Im sorry, but you cannot get anyone "experienced" without throwing them in there and forcing people to play through the different runs.

XkristoferX · Aug 24, 2008, 11:35 AM // 11:35

the problem is that people just see a build online and think "oh, i can do that without ever trying it." i'm just saying that practice does make perfect. you can go into UW by yourself and practice. that's what i did. after seeing so many chamber sins fail, i practice, got better, and figured out where and how to pull. that's all i'm asking. i know it's alot and it probably won't happen.

X

p.s. you only need an essence, if that to practice. if you can do it without a cons, how good would you be WITH cons?

ImpressiveSkilled · Aug 25, 2008, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultima pyromancer

Stand on the edge on where the reaper is then Deaths charge to the terrorwebs.. should be easy enough with a little practice on timing

Aww just tried it, either my timing suks or it doesn't work anymore.

I haven't seen people use it in a while actually.

Dante the Warlord · Aug 25, 2008, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by XkristoferX

the problem is that people just see a build online and think "oh, i can do that without ever trying it." i'm just saying that practice does make perfect. you can go into UW by yourself and practice. that's what i did. after seeing so many chamber sins fail, i practice, got better, and figured out where and how to pull. that's all i'm asking. i know it's alot and it probably won't happen.

X

p.s. you only need an essence, if that to practice. if you can do it without a cons, how good would you be WITH cons?

That is only for a sin, but with a terra you need grail of might as well. I have been attempting to see if any other cons might work i.e. candy corns+candy apples, but i have yet to recieve any of those cons. But yes, its a LOT harder then it looks and a lot of the people trying this run don't have enough money for that. It will be at least 10 runs to finally understand the run. Thats 50k+ the money you spend on making the armor/skills/weapons/mods and of course time and effort put in.

So what do you expect anyone to do? Lie of course... Being a sin and doing chambers is not the same as being a terra and attempting pits/wastes/pools. First, your job happens at the very entrance, meaning you can fail a lot, yet still practice. With terra sometimes they may get lost and die while trying to practice. Second, sins don't need grail of might to pull off SF, their Shadow arts can go as high as 16, whereas a terra needs a +1 attribute to survive and maintain SF.

All i am saying is that its a bit easier to do SF with a sin in financial regards. Its no cakewalk, but you can easily get where you wanna be and at least kill one or two guys. So you can make ectos to pay back you essence.

XkristoferX · Aug 25, 2008, 10:24 PM // 22:24

ok, i get what you're saying and i can agree with you. all i'm saying is that practice makes perfect.

X

Moloch Vein · Aug 26, 2008, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Alright, I'm not sure if this is really the "appropriate" place to put this build, but people have been asking me for it a couple of times, so...

I don't claim that this is the best or most optimized build that can be made, I'm just showing a UA build for a monk that's served me well when I've done a few pugs, that doesn't sacrifice a lot of killing power compared to a monk, while boosting the team's chance of success if for example the Vale assassin isn't very good (and well, that's why you do bring UA, isn't it: because your team isn't perfect):

[Mo/Me UA Balanced;OwUUE2B+QYSMExDlEiOderAIg2gA]

Pretty no-brainer usage. You use Life Bond on the Vale sin with a sup prot headgear to remove half of the damage from him. Life Bond on the SS in some situations. Signet to patch up some damage. Mirror of Disenchantment optional instead of any skill. Arcane Echo for a Clums/WE. Template can be changed for more offensive or defensive style.

SimonSez · Aug 26, 2008, 08:46 AM // 08:46

How do ppl do 4 Horsemens nowadays? caus I finnish my areas pretty fast as I useally do. But when I clear the vales sometimes someone ask why 4H isnt done yet. So would like to know if there's any changes how to do it fast.

mythbuster21 · Aug 26, 2008, 05:47 PM // 17:47

usually the pools terra is finished first and starts to clear plains. Then the pits terra comes to plains and takes the last spawn of 9 spectres. He uses these to kill the 2 horses. The other terra takes the pools side.

Grieve Logdan · Aug 26, 2008, 07:17 PM // 19:17

XkristoferX & Dante the Warlord

Just fyi, Sins don't need any cons to do their part as long as they carry Arcane Echo (AE) in their build which is common due to AE & CoP. Just instead of echo CoP during the sin's practice run they instead can echo Shadow Form like the chamber sin had to before Shadow Form's duration was buffed. If you don't know about this then let me explain briefly the old perma combo.

Here is the cast cycle...
Deadly Paradox -> Arcane Echo -> Shadow Form -> wait about 18 secs -> Shadow Form -> then repeat when skills recharge.

Quite easy once you figure out the timing. During the down time you just cast your other skills as usual. You just don't get to echo any offensive skills with this, but that's better than paying for an Essence everytime.